The American armed frigate, the John McCain is shadowing a North Korean ship carrying arm s, possibly small nuclear arms. The ship is making its way to Burma and Singapore. For it to be carrying arms is against U.N. resolutions.
What should the United States do?
Some commentators, especially on Fox News, say Nosident Obamarth Korea’s Prtesident Kim is taunting President Obama and daring him to make a move against the freighter. In addition Kim is threatening to launch a nuclear missile against Hawaii on July 4. Healso saYS boarding the freighter will be construed as an act of war
If Obama does not give orders to board and search the freighter will he seem weak? Then does Kim win?
What should the UYnited States do?
What do you think?
Kim is a dangerously sick man both physically and mentally. This thing reminds me of “the mouse that roared” but that mouse did not have nuclear weapons. I’m afraid that the only solution here is not to board the ship but to bomb the nuclear and ballistic North Korean installations in one definitive surgical strike with the participation of fed up China. With that maverick it is the only way.
Then as in the film rebuild the already shattered country and feed it’s already starving people.
Well who are we dealing with here? One one hand we have the US nation whose people have been indoctrinated with so many lies that the stench still permeates the thinking to this day. Yes warlike attitudes. Somehow the first and second amendments to the constitution have been reversed. At one time it was feel free to speak and then feel free to shoot. Today it is shoot first and speak later i.e. Iraq.
Bearing in mind that the US is the largest arms dealer in the world, no one has the right to stop North Korea from shipping conventional arms to anyone they wish. Bearing in mind that we cannot allow any nuclear arms to be shipped by anyone to anyone without permission of the UN and if this vessel is contributing to the proliferation of nuclear arms, it should be boarded and inspected by a nation delegated by the UN.
If President Kim, who’s melon is doubleparked, elects to launch anything at all on July 4th or at any other time, the warships and submarines encircling NK should be shot down with non-nuclear rockets and at the same time destroy the arms plants and the whole industrial complex while were at it in order to bring them to their knees.
There is one question which remains in my mind and that is should someone ask China to invade them, and if they accept, what is the price we have to pay, such as giving them Taiwan. However if China says no and also says leave NK alone, what kind of a hole have we now dug ourselves into. Maybe we shouldn’t ask China anything and if China objects later, just say were sorry to save China’s face. With China holding Trillions of US bonds they would have to accept the “sorry”
Any decision made, will be viewed by others, such as Iran, as maybe we’re next and we should stop rattling our swords.
Board the boat and deal with the consequences…
Obama should fly to North Korea’s capital and give a speech in which he apologizes for American agression everywhere, including the Korean War of the early ’50s.
Realizing that Obama is a sincere, good person who is not anything like George Bush, the Koreans will immediately lay down their arms and dismantle their nuclear programs.
Oopsie.
Back on June 18th, Neil wrote a post entitled “Should Obama back the Iranian Revolution” in which Neil praised his “measured and muted response.”
Most of you weighed in agreeing that Obama’s response was “brilliant” and had “wisdom” and on and on.
Well, how do you all feel now? Obama has come out quite strongly and forcefully with the comments he made today.
Do you now disagree with him? After all, nothing has changed in terms of the violence since you all made your comments (if anything the violence has lessened).
I’m not keeping track of this particular story. Far as I’m concerned, Kim is a threat to the entire world, and somebody should put a bullet between his eyes before he makes good on any of his threats.
Tony, I really don’t know what drives you in your hatred of Obama. You cannot equate the danger presented by Kim with the situation in Iran.
What you appear not to understand, Tony, is that Obama is a measured strategist and does not shoot his mouth off at first opportunity like McCain and a few others. His strategies are long-term.
I have no idea whether Obama should approve boarding North Korean ships. Frankly, I would rather it were China doing that, assuming it was in support of UN resolutions. It has to be a more international response.
Chimera:
What have I ever written that suggests I hold “hatred” for Obama?
Can you show me, please?
Is it possible to disagree with someone and not “hate” him?
“Measured strategist.” Not on the economy he is.
Anyway, only time will tell if he is on foreign policy. Right now jabs are being thrown like two boxers dancing around sparring.
When dealing with nuclear weapons you do nothing but talk. Even if a nation attacks another nation with nuclear weapons, you do nothing but talk, thats what Japan did when attacked by the U.S. They didn’t have nuclear weapons, and it was much better for us and them that they talked.
Obama’s strategy is to walk softly until you get all the information you are satisfied with, then act.
The Commentator, On the economy he acted because he had all the information he needed to act, and his actions were load and clear
Erm, right. He’s so smart.
He precipitated to push forward one of the great redistribution of wealth of our times. Even center- leftists acknowledge this and it’s leaving them a tad concerned.
Peter, one of the biggest criticisms about America is its deficit. YET, Obama has decided to INCREASE it to the point where it may never be able to erase it. Where and how, and I challenge ANYONE on this thread to prove it to me, is he FIXING the problem?
And stay clear of obtuse and rhetorical words and phrases like he’s “fighting greed”. That’s rubbish. He may as well fight the seven deadly sins. Talk about shadow boxing.
In pure math and financial terms, his plan is not a plan but a continuation of group think economic policies that has paralyzed American economics over the last 30 years- only on a grander scale. So massive I don’t think people are truly paying attention.
Who do you think is paying for all this? It’s either out of the pockets of the middle-class or he’s printing non-asset backed money. Where’s the genius in this? Hey, I don’t doubt he means well – I’m just skeptical he can pull it off. Time and time and time and stat after stat after stat, has shown us that government intervention in the economy and the merger of corporate/government interests eventually do more harm than good.
I know you don’t think this to be so Peter, but I do.
Last, Obama’s source of money is the UAW and businesses like Goldman-Sachs. I’ll let you all fill in the blanks. He may not be beholden to the military complex a-la Cheney et all, but even then…
Qui bono?
By the way, to me anyway, the only leader that’s made ANY sense through all this, is Germany’s Chancellor Angela Merkel. She’s wary of the way the U.S. and other European nations are handling the “dire economic file”. Google her and read her comments. They’re worth it and will add another perspective from a great nation who knows a thing or two about economic success and disasters.
I noticed Chimera and Tony debate about whether Obama is an extension of Bush or something else (what, I’m not sure). Here’s a link to an American diplomats blog and his take. I concluded the same thing – which doesn’t say much:<):
http://thehegemonist.com/2009/01/obamas-interesting-interlocutor.html
Now here's an interesting link to Z-Net. For those of you who don't know, Z is hard core left. Something Peter may like. Here's a piece about Obama from their perspective:
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/15558
I remember reading in The Guardian a reporter speak about Bush being a narcissist. Although I never understood it. The link above does the same thing but for Obama.
Last, here's his war record. I know these things are hard to trace back (I haven't checked factcheck.org) but it's interesting for our purposes here.
http://peacegarden.blogspot.com/2008/01/obamas-record.html
Enjoy.
The Commentator, I seldom google, but from my observation that in the long run Obama is doing the right thing. As far as a deficit is concerned, although it is not in the U.S. plans, the American people probably pay one of the lowest taxes anywhere. It would interesting to see how quickly he could erase the deficit if the populace paid as much taxes as Canadians.
What a terrible thought and yet is spite of our high taxes are we sufferring?
Great insight and common sense from The Commentator regarding the deficit. It is summed up in the following sentence:
So massive I don’t think people are truly paying attention.
The U.S. deficit is so big that it is the stuff of which brings down nations.
Even Obama is frightened of it, as his recent comments indicate.
“Is it possible to disagree with someone and not “hate” him?”
Of course it is. But you go way beyond merely disagreeing with Obama, Tony. Way beyond.
“The U.S. deficit is so big that it is the stuff of which brings down nations.”
And who is it that thinks the US is the only nation with a huge deficit?
But back to the question: The headline I saw when I logged on just now is that Kim is directly threatening to wipe out the United States. He’s threatening to attack Hawaii on the fourth of July. Given that he has followed through on all his other threats, despite worldwide protests not to do so, how does everyone feel about him, now? Ready to take him out, yet?
Peter, I think you can achieve lowering the deficit without increasing taxes and the government along with it.
A government has no business having a deficit or a surplus. I’m not sure, but I think you’re equating Canada’s “balanced books” with the fact we have above average taxes. I don’t think that’s entirely accurate. Taxing personal income is a grabbing money- nothing more or less.
Every Canadian should think this: If they take my, OUR, money I, WE, WANT TO SEE TRANSPARENCY ON EVERYTHING THEY SPEND IT ON. In Canada, we don’t have this. We don’t have an activist, hands on society keeping an eye on things.
Last, the thing that’s always perplexed me is this: For all our proud rhetoric and the taxes we pay, poverty levels (to choose but one small example) remains persistently high both on a per capita level and not.
I never believe for one sec. whenever a government presents its “surplus or deficit” numbers. May as well be Doug Henning acting as Finance Minister it’s so magical. I love it when they shout “we balanced the books!” as if it’s some sort of achievement.
Bah.
Chimera:
I asked you to come up with something I wrote that indicated “hatred” on my part towards Obama. All you could come up with was:
“The U.S. deficit is so big that it is the stuff of which brings down nations.”
And, according to you, this goes “way beyond” the pale.
Well, if this is your idea of “hatred” I really don’t know what to say. I don’t think there is any rational person who would agree with you that this is indicative of “hatred” on my part.
What you should do, however, if you want examples of expressions of “hatred” towards politicians is to read what people on this forum write about Bush and Cheney just over the past month.
Tony, don’t link those two comments. They do not belong together. The second has no relationship with the first. Two separate comments, not linked each another, and each answering the comment I quoted that appears directly in front of it.
I never said you said directly that you hate Obama. But you never let up on your objections to him, or about him. What is it specifically that you can’t stand about him? Is there anything you like about him?
Tony: It’s pretty clear that you have a strong dislike for Obama.
Look at this thread alone! The question is “should the US board the North Korean freighter?” and you proceed to go WAY off topic and complain about Obama’s response to the Iranian elections… you’re ALWAYS on Obama – constantly.
There is nothing wrong with that – It’s just pretty obvious that you hate him… that’s all.
I don’t think it’s hate. He’s trying to make the point that he’s sometimes lauded for merely continuing some of Bush’s policies – which you’re right about Tony.
You can be constantly be in disagreement with him or any leader for that matter, and not “hate” them.
Funny. When people did the exact same thing to Bush it was claimed to be “free thinking” and challenging authority. What? The buck stops at Obama? That’s ain’t right in my book. There’s plenty to question Obama over too.
What’s wrong with “being on Obama constantly”?
This is a democracy where we have opposing points of view.
And, Chimera, I have been very specific about what I don’t like about Obama.
Tony, “everything” is not specific. You’re picking fly shit outa pepper.
Opposing points of view are one thing, but they’re also not what you’re doing. You don’t oppose, you just object to everything. The concept of opposition is to provide alternatives and you’re not doing that.
You are right about one thing, with this topic, though…in a democracy, everyone is allowed to bitch — even if that’s all he does — and everyone else is allowed not to listen when they get tired of it.
Carry on.
“You don’t oppose, you just object to everything.”
I think you have him confused with the NDP.
Seriously, that may be true BUT he backs it up with reasons for it.
“What’s wrong with ‘being on Obama constantly’?”
I said it in my first post – and I’ll repeat it: there is nothing wrong with it (IMO). Be on him all you want…
“Funny. When people did the exact same thing to Bush it was claimed to be “free thinking” and challenging authority.”
You know what? I have NO PROBLEM saying “I ~hate~ GW Bush”. There, I feel better now. I really do hate him too!
The Commentator, watch you say about the N.D.P., if it wasn’t for them we wouldn’t have Health Care or the Old Age Pension. There objections are productive.
Their objections aren’t productive anymore Peter… Perhaps they have some credibility at the provincial (or lower) level – but federally they have been a joke for years. What a waste of a party…
Yeah well, I’ll bite my lip about the NDP.
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